What’s Wrong With American Nationalism?

It has been quiet around here this weekend.

This is because a massive debate has been going on between the self-described American Nationalists and the Hard Right over at the TRS Forums. It is safe to say the two sides have irreconcilable differences. The rift that has been growing since Shelbyville is now a complete schism.

Here is the definitive guide to what is wrong with American Nationalism:


1.) American Nationalism is civic nationalism – The debate which has been raging all weekend isn’t really about “American Nationalism” as it is understood by 99.999% of the American people. It is an internal debate within pro-White circles over American identity.

In one corner, there are the self-described American Nationalists who insist in spite of all the evidence to the contrary that Americans are White people and the United States is a White country. In the opposite corner, the Hard Right argues that American Nationalism in the 21st century is understood to mean civic nationalism except to one website on the internet and a few e-celebs.

It’s true that American identity was historically based on whiteness. It is also true that ended several generations ago. The shift from the historic American identity began in the 1930s with the New York Intellectuals and ended in the 1960s with our present deracinated American identity in the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s. For the last 50 years, Racially Conscious White Americans have been reduced to the American equivalent of India’s Untouchable Caste.

American identity is now based on the triumph of civic nationalism over White identity. Martin Luther King, Jr. has become the most important figure in the pantheon of American Nationalism. The Hard Right believes it is ludicrous to embrace American patriotism because the pageantry of American Nationalism is explicitly anti-White. American Nationalists believe they can “Take Back America.”

That’s the core disagreement.

2.) America’s changing demographics means America is lost – The second source of disagreement is over changing racial and cultural demographics in the United States.

American Nationalists are backwards looking. They believe that they can “Take Back America” in a country where non-Hispanic Whites are 61% of the population and falling. The Hard Right points out that the 61% figure includes Jews and Arabs and all sorts of people who aren’t really White in the sense that we understand the term. It doesn’t include the millions of illegal aliens here. If the US Census used our definition of who is White, it would find we’re probably already a racial minority.

Regardless of whether we are a racial minority in the present, we will certainly become one in the near future. Within our lifetimes, non-Hispanic Whites will become a minority in the United States. The Hard Right argues that the cake is already baked. Even if all immigration ceased tomorrow which isn’t going to happen, it wouldn’t change anything about America’s future because that generation has already been born, Whites are dying out and Whites are already a minority in the youngest age brackets.

“American Nationalism” is based on nostalgia for a bygone era. Just as Ronald Reagan’s legacy was a browning America and the loss of California, Donald Trump’s legacy will be an even browner America and the the loss of a larger tier of states to the Democrats. We shouldn’t base our sense of identity on membership in a state which is only going to become more hostile to our existence.

3.) American Nationalism is a cancer – American Nationalists are scandalized by our diagnosis that Americanism is a disease. America has been struggling with this problem though since the American Revolution. The trend for 200 years has been the expansion of liberty, equality, tolerance, rights, voting and capitalism at the expense of everything else.

Authority has been consistently undermined. Homogeneity has been consistently undermined. We’ve been in a permanent state of social revolution for centuries. As soon as one novelty is mainstreamed, another predictably rises to take its former place and agitate against limits. This has hardly changed under Donald Trump and may have even accelerated as we are purged from the internet and the #MeToo movement has mainstreamed an even more radical strain of feminism.

American Nationalists want to pretend that there isn’t any inherent conflict between civic nationalism and ethnonationalism. And yet, everywhere we look in the world where civic nationalism has triumphed we see the futility of voting our way to a traditional culture. In the long term, the system has produced the same result everywhere it has been tried because its ideals – liberty, equality, tolerance, voting, individual rights, capitalism – are inherently destructive and corrosive of social hierarchies. They undermine the social order and weaken ethnic bonds which allows hostile elites like Jews to rise and takeover.

Once again, everywhere we have this system we find the same problems. The problem is inherent to the system itself when the collective result of all elections produces the same result all over the world. American hegemony since the Second World War has exported the disease of civic nationalism abroad.

4.) Federalism is a thing of the past – American Nationalists insist we need to seize power at the local level. In a sense, they are right that some offices might be of some use to us like becoming the local sheriff in your county. The problem with our system though is that power is concentrated at the top in Washington. There isn’t much in the way of meaningful state and local government that can’t be shot down by the federal courts or by threats to cut off federal purse strings.

As Donald Trump shows, power isn’t even concentrated in the office of the presidency itself. The Jewish oligarchy still has the power to bend a president elected in a “nationalist populist revolution” to their will. The American Nationalist belief in reforming the system is contradicted by their belief in the power of the Deep State which they lament has checked and neutered President Trump.


5.) Reforming the system is impossible because of demographics – American Nationalists unironically believe the system can be reformed through voting for the Republican Party. The Hard Right believes that mainstream politics is destined to fail due to changing racial demographics. Once Texas or Florida goes, it will become impossible to elect a Republican president. The browning of North Carolina, Georgia, South Carolina and Arizona will also turn those states into swing states.

Sometime in the 2020s, the United States will tip into the future where the country as a whole has the politics of California. The two-party system will collapse once the Republican Party ceases to be viable. Conservatism will become obsolete. This is the future the Hard Right is anticipating and preparing for while American Nationalists look back nostalgically to the 1980s.

6.) Donald Trump was the royal flush of civic nationalism – Donald Trump is the ultimate argument against American Nationalism. He was the royal flush of civic nationalism. He was a rogue billionaire who ran for the presidency and defeated all his rivals and won the White House.

This was the best hand that American Nationalists could ever possibly be dealt. The Trump presidency really was their last conceivable chance to Take Back America. The result of the Trump presidency has been the usual conservative program of tax breaks, deregulation, increases in military spending and giveaways to Israel. Donald Trump would have to be using the presidency to make sweeping changes to our immigration laws and deporting millions of illegal aliens to even make a dent in our trajectory. He isn’t even trying to do that which shows how impervious the system is to reform.

The GOP has spent 2018 arguing about the Democrat agenda of gun control and DACA amnesty.

7.) The policies are sold to the donors – The major reason that elections change so little is because the policies are sold to the donor class. As long as a Jewish billionaire can buy our trade policy, our foreign policy or our immigration policy, voting is a meaningless ritual. American Nationalists operate on the assumption that America is a democracy when it is an oligarchy.

They want us to stop advocating our own cause and cuck ourselves to the GOP. They offer us nothing in return for accepting this deal except notional victories. Vote for the Republican Party … and you will end abortion. Vote for the Republican Party … and you will stop sodomite marriage. Vote for the Republican Party … and the jobs will come back from overseas. Vote for the Republican Party … and coal mining will come back, believe me. Vote for the Republican Party … and we will build a 30 foot Mexican border wall. Vote for the Republican Party … and we will defeat political correctness, believe me. None of these notional victories ever materialize or amount to anything more than token gestures and failure theater because these issues are dropped from the legislative agenda.

Elections matter a great deal to Sheldon Adelson or the Koch Brothers because the GOP sells its policies to its donors. They don’t matter as much to us. It is a contest between the billionaires who are represented by their puppets in Congress. If Hillary had won the 2016 election, it is unlikely that Jerusalem would have been recognized as the capital of Israel or the Koch Brothers would have got their big tax cut.

8.) You’re not going to purge the cucks – We don’t hear much about Bannonism anymore from the American Nationalists who were going to purge the cucks a few months ago. Trump’s “America First” foreign policy reverted to the traditional Republican neocon foreign policy. Trump’s “America First” economic agenda has defaulted to nothing more than the Reaganite supply side tax cut that Republicans have dreamed about since the 1980s. Trump’s “America First” immigration agenda has amounted to nothing more than a few border wall prototypes gathering dust in the Arizona desert. Steve Bannon himself was driven out of the White House and fired by Breitbart.

How do the American Nationalists plan to Take Back America in the 2018 midterms with candidates like Mitt Romney, Pastor Mark Burns and Stacey Dash? The Republican Party has been given the White House, Congress, the Supreme Court and the majority of state legislatures. It is at the apex of its power. Voting for the Republican Party as a strategy has been exhausted it is only downhill from here.

9.) American Nationalists are the supreme cucks – American Nationalists like to pose as supreme pragmatists. They are moving the Overton Window through small steps with electoral victories. In reality, the Trump administration has coincided with the decline of free speech, the removal of Confederate monuments and the normalization of homosexuality on the Right. The Merchant Right is a more pozzed and degenerate version of Bush era mainstream conservatism. The Trump era has been a more degraded era of mainstream conservatism with a thrice married president. American Nationalists breathlessly cheer on conservatives as they move the ball down the field on tax cuts, deregulation, military spending, cucking for Israel and other areas where substantial policy gains are made.

Far from being supreme pragmatists, American Nationalists are the supreme cucks. They are cheerleaders for the GOP which uses and abuses them like a cheap date. In the end, all they end up accomplishing with their 24/7 GOP cheerleading is cucking voters into supporting the traditional Republican policy agenda which is neocon foreign policy and neoliberal economics in exchange for notional victories on issues like abortion or a border wall that has been promised for 12 years.

10.) You’re not going to infiltrate the system – As Richard Spencer pointed out the other day, the people who have infiltrated the Republican Party to change it from within have become so terrified of being policed and losing their jobs that they have been of little use to the movement. They would be better off just trying to make as much money as possible so that they could send donations.

How do American Nationalists plan to infiltrate and reform the system when the media has the power to destroy the careers of people like Steve Wynn who aren’t even White Nationalists? How do you infiltrate and hijack control of the GOP when you can’t even infiltrate a middle school in Florida?

11.) These Republicans are our secret friends – Is Donald Trump our secret friend? What is the message he is really signaling to us? American Nationalists are glued to this stuff which keeps them enraptured with conservatism. They are no different than their parents generation who sat in their La-Z-Boy watching Bill O’Reilly explain the George W. Bush presidency. Just try pointing out to these people that they were unanimously condemned by the GOP Congress and Donald Trump and watch them shrug it off. The Republican Party has been dog whistling to them for decades only to pick their pockets in power.

12.) You will never be mainstream – American Nationalists argue we need to be “mainstream.” What is the “mainstream” though? The “mainstream” is a network of Jewish-controlled media outlets who establish and police the boundaries of “mainstream” political discourse to keep it kosher. The “mainstream” is an agreement between the elites of both political parties to deny us representation, stigmatize our community and exclude us from politics. Don Quixote had better luck charging at windmills than American Nationalists do of ever being accepted as “mainstream.”

American Nationalists are convinced the eternal normie can be won over with aesthetic appeals which has led to their obsession with optics. They believe all we have to do is wear the right outfit or wave the right flag and act like the Sons of Confederate Veterans. We can make this safe and respectable even though by definition we are stigmatized as outside the “mainstream” by the Jewish power structure.

The Eternal Normie who is their target audience is an individualist, a materialist and a follower. Even when he agrees that American Nationalists look good and present well, he has no inclination or incentive to join a marginalized political movement or take any risks to bring about political change because of it. This is because he is fundamentally out for himself in life. In the event that he does join and participate in the movement, he will only use the internet as an outlet for his repressed fantasies.

The American Nationalists who believe they can become mainstream and cease to be stigmatized by putting on a polo shirt, wearing khakis and going to the gym are as deluded as the Africans who believe that eating the hearts of their enemies will cause bullets to magically bounce off them in battle.

13.) American Nationalists aren’t represented in the government – The whole point of participating in the political process is to gain representation. The pro-White community voted for the Republican Party in historic numbers in the 2016 election. It gained no representation. The Republican Congress unanimously blamed White Nationalists for the violence in Charlottesville while exempting Antifa from criticism. If our votes for the Republican Party don’t translate into either representation or policy victories, why should anyone invest so much time in caring about the outcome of elections?


14.) Voting for the GOP doesn’t change taboos – Voting for the Republican Party will never change the taboos we live under that have stigmatized and marginalized the pro-White community. It will only empower conservatives to implement their own agenda.

History shows that taboos only fall when they are challenged in the public square by brute force and cease to be observed.  It will require a revolutionary mindset to change those taboos. The taboos we live under will only crumble when Whites cease to observe them and defy them en masse in public. There is no easy or cowardly way to change our circumstances. We’re more likely to change those taboos BY NOT VOTING for the Republican Party and using our leverage to cause them to lose elections.

In Europe, there are populist nationalist parties that take votes away from the mainstream parties, which is why elections matter there but not here. Elections would only matter to us in the United States if we had a similar third party to take votes away from the Republicans.

15.) These taboos are not on the ballot –  The taboos that American Nationalists want to change are not on the ballot. Republican have won countless electoral victories. They control the White House, Congress and Supreme Court. They control more state legislatures and governorships than at any point since the 1920s. Politically, the Democrats have been decisively defeated, but the culture continues to shift perpetually to the Left because norms are upheld in the public square and can only be changed there.

16.) The Trump cheerleading cult – In the service of God Emperor Donald Trump who has jettisoned the platform he ran on during the campaign, American Nationalists like Ricky Vaughn would have us transform our movement into nothing more than a vacuous Trump cheerleading cult. This is the same mistake that George Wallace voters made when they were coopted by Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan.

17.) American Nationalism reinforces our marginalization – American Nationalism reinforces our marginalization in three ways:

First, it reinforces the taboos that marginalize us by attacking and discouraging our own activists. What sense does it make to relentlessly attack the people who are willing to take the most risks and make the most sacrifices for our cause? Why on earth would any movement want to alienate its most committed supporters? We don’t see any parallel of this on the Left.

Second, it reinforces those taboos by diverting time and energy away from our own cause in order to cuck our movement into energizing and propping up mainstream conservatism. The only thing “American Nationalism” has managed to accomplish so far is to polarize, undermine and weaken the Alt-Right which is why civic nationalists who don’t have our best interests at heart have been promoting it.

Third, it has all been done in the service of promoting the aesthetic of any run-of-the-mill Patriot group in America without creating a corresponding street presence. All these polarizing debates about optics and American flags have been completely academic because “American Nationalists” generally don’t leave their homes anyway.

There are countless conservative Patriot civic nationalist groups like the Oathcucks or the Threepers out there who are doing the mainstream version of “American Nationalism” that appeals to 99.999% of Americans and they can’t even generate the numbers of Unite the Right. Why haven’t the normies come out to support those guys? It’s because they sit at home and watch them on Facebook Live.


18.) American Nationalism blackpills the family – The most destructive aspect of American Nationalism isn’t waving the American flag. It’s not cucking our cause to mainstream conservatism in order to help the Republican Party win elections. It isn’t revering a state that despises and oppresses us.

No, the worst aspect of American Nationalism is that it “blackpills” impressionable young men on the traditional family. American Nationalists tell these kids absurd things like, “no woman will ever love you.” They discourage them from finding a wife, settling down and starting their own families. Instead, they tell them to invest everything … in the success of cuckservatism and the Republican Party.

There is absolutely nothing more “blackpilling” than to tell a young man that all is lost and to discourage him from starting his own family and preying on his loneliness to advance your own agenda. He might not have a glorious career in a declining Third World America. He might not be represented by the Republican Party. American Nationalists tell these kids not to pursue the things in life that are actually achievable.

19.) American Nationalism drives a wedge between men and women – Consistent with their goal of blackpilling young men on the family, American Nationalists have demonized women and attempted to drive them out of the movement altogether. They’ve even been known to attack women who are in normal, healthy relationships with other men in the movement. How on earth can a movement that is supposed to be about “securing the existence of our people and a future for white children” accomplish its goals by listening to a bunch of embittered, childless losers who have forsaken their God-given roles as husbands and fathers?

20.) American Nationalism drives a wedge between the young and the old – If it wasn’t bad enough that American Nationalism pits men against women, it also find its necessary to pit the young against the old. Instead of respecting their elders and honoring their fathers, they denigrate them regardless of their ideological views. It’s un-Christian, unnecessary and it is also politically retarded.

21.) American Nationalism drives another wedge with snobbery and optics spiraling – American Nationalists want you to know that they aren’t just racists. In addition to being racists, they also believe it is vital that we hate women and to look down on other White people. So, even if you manage to convert to the cause of White Nationalism, they want to alienate and drive you away over “optics.”

The result is optics spiraling which is basically endless Queer Eye for the Straight Guy sessions about fitness and clothes by all the ponces and fags who can’t attract a woman and start their own families. It is yet another reason to polarize and fracture the movement and narrow the appeal of their own cause down to an even tinier percentage of the White population.

22.) American Nationalism undermines the solidarity that gives coherence to White Nationalism – By driving out women, older people and everyone who fails the optics test, American Nationalism destroys the foundation of White Nationalism, which is creating a state based on racial solidarity so that our children can have a future. Then again, American Nationalists don’t have children so this isn’t a problem for them, but the overall effect is to undermine the glue that holds the movement together.

23.) American Nationalism makes White Nationalism toxic and narrows its appeal – The toxic rhetoric of American Nationalists has been used to tarnish our public image. A movement which denounces “goon marches” and purports to be about assembling coalitions to win elections simultaneously advocates beating, torturing and raping women because it is incoherent:


24.) American Nationalists abandon moral standards – We don’t live in a White Nationalist society. This is a difficult subject because it forces us to deal with imperfect people who come from a variety of backgrounds. I’ve tended to err on the side of being charitable for past transgressions. My reasoning is that we will all be dead one day and what matters is the world we leave behind to our children.

As a practical matter, our movement will never grow if we only accept flawless people, but at the same time it will lose coherence if we have no standards. It is one thing to have done something in your past that you regret and want to move on from. It is another thing to defend and advocate miscegenation in the present as just blowing your load in the non-White gene pool.

25.) American Nationalism talks down White Nationalism – My final criticism of American Nationalism is that in pursuit of non-existent electoral victories it attacks White Nationalism.

White Nationalists aren’t in power but that doesn’t justify abandoning principles. It doesn’t mean we have to jettison moral standards. It doesn’t mean we have to give up on the family. Truth be told, American mainstream politics isn’t nearly important as to how we orient ourselves toward truth and live our lives. Starting a family does more for our cause than voting for your Republican congressmen.

In the place of truth and ideological coherence, American Nationalism offers nothing but layers of irony and nihilism, stupidity, trolling for lulz and harassing people which generates massive legal bills. It is bro culture for immature overgrown adolescents, not a plan of action.

Source: Occidental Dissent

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